#197: Bill Cosby, America’s Dad

December 6, 2014

197

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Adam and Drew open the show taking listener phone calls including how to get your parent to consider going to therapy later in life and a chef with a question about his career path. Adam also gives Drew his philosophy on made up beauty products and asserts that if he could raise a child without any of those products being introduced that child would look much better thirty years later than a child using all the products. As the show wraps up Adam and Drew discuss the recent Bill Cosby controversy. Superfan Sidebar >>

  • TylerSux

    Isn’t it amazing that Dr. Drew calls an incredible herb like kratom “dangerous”, which by the way has helped millions of people and has been used safely for thousands of years. All the while he was recently caught up in a scandal with Glaxo Smith Kline, who own the kratom alkaloid patents (if you look up “mitragyna patents” on Google). There are many new studies and LOTS of information coming out that support kratom and say not only does it to do the opposite of what Dr. Drew says by helping people get off of opiods, but has safely helped people deal with many other things, including pain, anxiety, and depression. If you want to read more about Dr. Drew’s scandal, go here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/03/dr-drew-glaxosmithkline-promote-drugs_n_1647045.html

  • Missy Chandler

    Dr. Drew… you should be ashamed of yourself! All the work you do with addicts.. and yet you slam Kratom, the one NATURAL product that could save their lives. Yet, you tout the Big Pharma companies, and push products that kill thousands of people every day! IF you have truly done your Kratom research you KNOW the benefits of this “Tree Of Life”… but simply choose not to spread the good news, choosing instead to feed into the bullshit that the police and news stations are trying to spread. This plant is helping thousands of addicts get off ALL drugs, both illegal and prescribed, is giving them their lives back, and keeping them sober. Pain patients who are being screwed by the DEA are getting out of bed and regaining their lives! Kratom is not addictive, no more than coffee. It doesn’t not cause hallucinations, “high”s, or any true feeling of Euphoria like pills do. It simply takes care of the pain! Yes- people DO end up with a general sense of overall well being, but there are no “speedy” type effects… no “loopiness”… I compare it to taking a really good vitamin with maybe a cup of coffee… Most of us don’t even “feel” anything… we just feel BETTER! Do your research, Tell the truth, and be part of the solution, NOT THE PROBLEM!

    • Sister

      Kratom is VERY addictive. I have seen/know too many that became very addicted to this substance. Now in the name of Harm reduction… it may be better then sub/herione and other addictive substances. But… if one wants to live without the substance dictating each day…. Kratom is not the answer. I have seen Moms let Kratom override Christmas for their kids. The kick appears just as hard as kicking short acting opiates if not harder.

      • Amy

        I find that incredibly hard to believe. I take kratom myself, and the addiction you describe is just not true.

      • jenniferspengler

        Kratom overriding Christmas??? I don’t even see how that’s possible. I spend under $60/month on kratom. I’m not saying that there isn’t potential for addiction with kratom and certain people, but even in the worst case scenario, I can’t see it overriding Christmas! I seriously think you’re trolling.

        • Sister

          Stay with the leaves… once you go to the extracts may God protect you.
          Im a recovering addict. Do not wish this addiction on anyone but once you cross that line… very difficult to return to baseline. But… you choose to believe what you want. If not an addict that wonderful. But playing with a very addictive substance.

          • RobertM

            I’ll just leave this here:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5HwM04e0a4

          • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

            Thanks for sharing that robert.I agree.Addiction is a brain disorder.Not evwrybody becomes addicted.And it is EXACTLY what my pain dr told me when I was concerned and affraid Id be addicted to what he is prescribing.
            He also explained addiction and dependendancy.So as ibwatched this and he mentioned the oil industries and that kind of thing there is also dependancy they are rewarded for that has neg results as well.But also very good results…anyways…good video.

          • RobertM

            So very true. The video is an excerpt from the documentary, ‘Zeitgesit: Moving Forward’. Highly recommend it, if you have not already seen it.

          • Robin

            We dont promote extracts.. Kratom is no more addictive than coffee… Praise GOD for this TREE..I am not nor have ever been an addict. but i suffer EVERY single day with debilitating pain. KRATOM Works!!!!!

        • I thought that as well. Most of these posts alleging kratom addiction seem to be paid trolls working for an industry that profits from the opiate/opioid addiction cycle.

      • Adam

        That is the most ridiculous, and absurd thing I have ever heard. The people you speak of must have a very low threshold for pain and discomfort. That or they’re hypochondriacs. If they had a hard time kicking kratom, then tell them to stay away from caffeine, because caffeine withdrawal is much worse! Sad thing is, is caffeine withdrawal is not even that bad. The worst of it is a migraine, all of which is mostly cured by common folk is with dangerous Tylenol, or ibuprofen. Both which have claimed more than 2,000 lives in the past decade! I used kratom to kick my heroine addiction. Used it for 9 months and quit cold turkey and all I had was a runny nose. Whoever you are, you literally have no idea what the crap you’re talking about. You literally should not being giving advice to anyone, and if anyone is stupid enough to listen to your advice, hopefully they’re not standing too close to you or they’ll get shit on their clothes. It’s fools like you that have caused the extensive and ongoing decay of western society. Kratom has never killed anyone, you on the other hand may have killed anyone unfortunate enough to follow your advice. You say you’ve seen too many that became very addicted to this substance. I’ve been taken kratom for a long time and I only personally know one other person that takes it. Even if you claim to be a nurse, doctor, rehabilitation employee, etc. No matter what the rebuttal you have, please cover your mouth when you say it. You remind me of a rehab counselor, or rehab owner. They will say anything to increase their business and further their name. I learned that a lot of them could care less about helping people, its all about the money. Go get some popcorn and watch reefer madness because that is who you’re sounding like. To think of all the lives that one video destroyed, and the fools that had the audacity to listen. All the people they killed, families ruined, law enforcement hazards on both sides, drug cartel, drug war, prison population, etc… Seriously why don’t people like you pull their head out? Stop contributing to the decay of this country!!! The most dangerous liars are those that think they are telling the truth. You ma’am are not of this breed. Part of you deliberately lies.

      • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

        Could u find me some litature to back up your assumption.Id like to read some testamonials of ppl who had to go to rehab for kratom abuse.Im not. being sarcastic in any way.I am serious.Im not talking dependancy Im talking addiction to the point of it ruining and having negative effects.where they are spendimg thousands of dollars and selling their body on the street to fuel the addiction.Not just they need and want it to not be in pain or have anxiety or add value to ppls life.:)

        • Sister

          chrisy Junior Member

          Join DateJan 2008Location, , .Posts1
          hi Danielle.I also got addicted to kratom,I have been on suboxone for a week now.Before kratom I had a 25 a day hydro habit.As an opiate/opioid addict for over ten years,my body and brain can not tell the difference between hydro and this relative of a coffee tree that supposedly is not an opioid.Kratom withdrwal especially the extracts was just as bad and even worse than hydro.kratom brought me to my knees in a way I have never experienced,financially destroyed us,nearly ended my 12 year marriage.Even though the physical withdrawals were stopped on the suboxone I still have the depression.
          You are “not a wuss who got addicted to kratom”It is one wicked ship and is being under estimated.Thank you for posting about it.best wishes in your recovery.

          • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

            Im talking studies.Medical studies.That have been documented.
            Addiction is a brain disorder.The video above is excellent at explaining.

          • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

            Oh …and i dont mean to be comming across as snitty incase I am…:) Its just ppl can become addicted to everyrhing and EVERYTHING .and these ppl already have an addictive trait to begin with …….theres even excersice addiction …which is also too much of a good thing that makes your brain feel good as it realeses chemicals …and sugar which I cant even.overcome ..lol.and in a brain scan shows the same results in the cortex of someone who has used cocain.But whats upsetting to me is that society is quick to slap addiction on the end of everything….and the fact that ppl dont know the difference between addiction and dependancy.And then falling in between are the ppl that would a say they are addicted when actually their bodies are dependant.So im tryimg to find out as much as I can on my belief as you are on yours.I dont want you to think I dont respect that.:) cuz I do.And to see someone w ritting about themself is ok but not proof enough for me to know they are not working for pharmaceutical co. Or government who are working to ban a very important plant that has given me my life back.Whats even more upsetting is that alcohol that had no health benifit and is a depressent with nothing but neg results against ourbody both physical and mental is legal.The addiction rate of alcohol is far much worse than kratom I believe.And it also has diff doses and too much can actually kill u with alcohol poisoning.Where as kratom u just throw up…and so.many other comparisons can be made but I cant.write forever here…lol.

          • Sister

            I started my addicted life just physically dependent, soon… it became emotional to. There is a very find line on this topic. but your life, your choice. Kratom s a calcium beta blocker, long acting and very hard on the liver. I get its make you feel better. I just choose to feel good without having to put a substance in my body these days.
            To me… harm reduction may come into play for others, just not for me.

          • Adam

            We talking 25 pills or 25 mg’s? I’m assuming that’s 25 mg’s and not 25 pills or that would be some serious Tylenol intake, and would also explain the lack of tolerance this person would have due to their liver and kidneys being completely destroyed. Hydros are some pretty weak pills to get addicted to, and if they were taking “25 pills” a day, then they are just really stupid or they had a death wish. No doctor would prescribe 750 pills, which would imply that this person is not very bright if they were buying them off the street to support a habit. If that is not the case, the withdrawal for 25 mg’s a day would be very mild and short lived. Prescribing suboxone for that kind of habit would also be insane! The doctors must be a quack. So according to your claims in this situation and to what you’re implying is that the human race is only as strong as its weakest link. In this case, the weakest link got addicted to some extremely unnecessary, and extremely expensive kratom, therefore kratom should be banned? There is some serious lack of logic here.

          • Sister

            I seen addicts intake of hydros far above what this women ingested. How the tylonel did kill them amazes me. Are you kidding about MD scripting this dose????? I remember a guy I went to see in a nursing home for IV antibiotics, (endocarditis). HE was on 400 methadone, 400mg oxycontin and roxy for breakthrough.
            phergan to top it off along with benzo;s. Dont tell me MD don’t script way over whats recommended. Though the pain pill mills are slowly be shut down…..back in my day I flew there for three days.. come home with over 2000 pills in pocket of Roxy 80’s. How did that happen I wonder.. some MD had to write those scripts to get them from the “pain” clinic.

          • Adam

            No I’m not kidding. You would never see a doctor prescribe that many hydros. Smart doctors would prescribe something without the tylenol, i.e., roxy’s or oxy’s. That was the point I was trying to make. The mg intake you speak of with the 400 mg’s is nothing new to me. I’ve seen worse myself.

            You do however make something very clear, that being that some doctors are quacks and prescribe way too much medication, which in turn makes kratom a much better, safer, and reliable option. You are only validating the message of those who are pro kratom are trying to get across, and that is that doctors are sometimes stupid, and that can’t be trusted. Since kratom is safe, can’t kill anyone, and can’t cause serious side effects that pharmaceuticals do, then there is no reason AT ALL to call it dangerous. And since anything can be addictive, If people do become addicted to kratom, its all psychological, and nothing physical. Even then if people do experience physical withdrawal of addiction symptoms, I guarantee you that they are merely experiencing a nocobo effect, which many hypochondriacs are prone to having.

            The old research that is being used today to demonize kratom, that little bit of info that honestly says nowhere that it is in anyway dangerous, is 60 to 70 years old, used on mentally ill patients. Why not take it from the thousands around the country that swear by it, and praise how safe it really is? People like you need to swallow your pride, and stop using hypochondriacs to prove your point. Admit that you’re wrong, do some research, and once you find out how safe it is, you can then reflect on what a fool you and everyone has been, and realize how many lives you could of saved.

      • Robin

        THat is a complete and udder lie!!

      • Elaine T Barry

        Could you please show the physical research on this please?? Where are these reports and/or who are all of these so many people who you have seen or know who became addicted?? Ma’am forgive me, but you are not telling the truth. And you know you aren’t

      • Kratom is no more ‘dangerous’ than a pleasant cup of coffee. If you feel ‘addicted’ to it, it’s because it’s effective and better than being depressed and in pain. That is called an effective therapeutic effect. When you stop taking any medicine, you will again suffer from the lack of its therapeutic effect. You should probably stay away from ginseng, chocolate and red bull as well. God help you on tobacco!

        I have been using kratom daily for 4 years (2-3 grams of powdered leaf
        4x daily), and during a recent hospital visit, I was given no
        medication of any kind for 8 days and had no withdrawal symptoms
        …there simply is no physical addiction.

        Demonizing Kratom is not only incorrect thinking, but immoral. Kratom is the
        cure for opiate/opioid addictions, and can replace other dangerous
        psychiatric medications, but it’s effects are no more impairing than
        a double espresso. Only greed could account for proposed bans
        sponsored by those corporations and professions that profit from
        addiction to opiates.

        Don’t be fooled again. Try this herbal tea for yourself before overreacting
        and dooming thousands to opiate addiction.

  • Erin Pickup

    Wow! Dr. Drew you should be very ashamed of yourself for putting very false information out there to your listeners!! Kratom is a plant that gives people their lives back after having been through the roller coaster and mind fuck of pain and opiate addiction. It doesn’t make a person speedy or euphoric. It just helps people feel better without the high that an opiate gives. But without people addicted to heroin and pain pills you wouldn’t really be employed and gaining benefits of other peoples pain and suffering now would you? You are an utter shame to the people out there who listen to you and take your advice

  • Margo Burton

    Dr. Drew, I have always liked you but now I must reconsider my affections. When people demonize kratom (and I’m sure it’s the pharma industry puppets who do this bc they don’t like competition) it will lead to this wonderful plant getting banned and thousands upon thousands of us chronic pain patients who rely on it to function in order to take care of our families will suffer horribly in the long run. I’d rather take a natural plant over a pharmaceutical pain pill any day. I as a human being in constant pain have that right to choose. Even when I took pain pills for my endometriosis pain, I still constantly had breakthrough pain and I was not able to hold and play with my baby girl who I had to try for 3 hard years to even conceive. I felt like I didn’t even deserve to have her bc I wanted to curl in a ball and cry all day. This plant gave me back my life. I can play with her all day, I deserve her now, and my brain isn’t constantly foggy from the buzz that pain pills give. How dare you only listen to one side without doing your own research, looking on kratom forums for testimonials to see for yourself how much this plant helps people like me, and addicts as well…? Stop taking the bribes, already!

  • Julie R

    Please do your research before you start to bash a plant, that has helped so many with their addictions to narcotics. Kratom is a tree, that has benefits for so many. Benefits that the pharmaceutical industry and doctors have yet to come up with to help patients with their chronic pain. The same industry that produces these chemicals that supposedly lessen pain, which in turn, causes addiction, to then turn around and put the strictest of restrictions to said medication. Of course, we’re going to go find anything to help relieve the pain. Kratom is a natural God given plant, that doesn’t have the severe addictions of narcotics. You are making uneducated assumptions on a plant, you obviously don’t know anything about!

    • Sister

      opium is a natural substance also… yet very addictive. I hear you on harm reduction. I know every addict had to go through a “recovery period” where they weill experience depression, anxiety even rebound pain. I did, every addict I worked with did. It a personal choice I guess. Pay the price now or later. I promised myself that once I was over the acute phase of my wd I would to take any substance for one yr. This allowed my body/brain continue the healing. Lo and behold by the time that yr was up I no longer had the depression. Now I will also admit i did use a Plant not legal in the USA to get through my initial detox phase. I had to leave the USA to get my treatment with IBOGAINE but my detox was a cake walk compared to cold turkey. I already fell for the lies around Sub which only left me with yet another habit. I tried every detox the USA has to offer. The US has given up on opiate addict living dope free. So they now push sub just like they pushed methadone. I will say… my stint on sub taught me a huge lesson. The only way to reclaim my life was to be willing to pay the price for my choices. So I did. I now do not need to depend on anything to fulfill my life. the depression subsided, the anxiety subsided, Did this take time… yes. was it worth not having to depend on any substance to be happy, HELL YES!

      • RobertM

        Sister,

        A kratom user of 7+ years here. I use kratom for chronic pain from a fall from a 2.5 story house, onto concrete. After I ‘revolved’ around the Big Pharma prescription pain opiates (that did little good), I researched and tried this herb kratom.

        Not only did this plant completely resolve ALL of my pain, that the prescription opiates did not, it also diminished the recurring (diagosed) depression and anxiety disorder I was diagnosed with (completely separate story).

        What happens when I stop taking this plant, that I have been using for 7+ years??? I don’t feel AS good, and my chronic pain (from the stated injury) flares back up.

        That’s it.

        No ‘withdrawals’, sweating, sleeplessness, etc., that you would normally associate with a ‘withdrawal’.

        I stopped drinking Coffee (unintentionally) and had ‘withdrawals’ 100x worse than not taking kratom.

        This plant has a MASSIVE amount of health benefits, and used in moderation, this plant is LITERALLY saving lives!

        There is WAY too much misinformation, disinformation, and propaganda; concerning this plant, and it is beyond due time to unveil the Truth.

        If you have not read any (or much) scientific literature on this plant, I highly urge you to do so. If you would like me to point you in the right direction to these, I am more than wiling to do so.

        I do understand your viewpoint, Sister, but your statements do not hold truth, to this literal God-send of a plant.

        Warmest Regards,

        Robert M.

        • Julie R

          Amen!

          • Sister

            I am happy for you….. I guess the clients that Ive treated that do have a more severe detox syndrome associated with Kratom would be very jealous reading this. I have seen addicts that abuse Oxy and H have a very light wd syndrome also. I do and Did get jealous when I wittiness this myself. One that I treated now does have to face a more severe wd syndrome. My experience is keep using and soon one will cross the line. One that comes to mind who’s kick was very light now says differently. She is not sitting in Jail due to not wanting to face another detox. Addiction is a tricky devil…I hope this continues for you.

  • Bradford Speck

    Dr. Drew I am seriously disappointed with you. I don’t know where you got your information on kratom but I’ll have to disagree on a few things and am scared that you may turn someone off of kratom who it could seriously help.

    Dr Drew I was a heroin and opiate addict for over 6 years. It ruined my life. I dropped out of a biology program at Temple University, I spent every penny I had, I lost my car, my house, the respect of family and friends to this addiction. I am sure that is a story you have heard many times.

    My second time in an inpatient rehab I was medically detoxed from opiates using methadone. I left rehab with a number to a Suboxone clinic. I had zero, and I mean zero intentions of staying on Suboxone for any extended period of time, but I wanted to get through the withdrawal, the depression, the sleepless nights, and just start putting my life back together. Suboxone curbed my withdrawal and cravings for three months as I did a slow taper using only 42 8mg pills of suboxone in 3 months. After finishing the taper, my desire for opiates was still there, along with the standard withdrawal symptoms. I went weeks dealing with this, frustrated that now I felt I was feeling withdrawal effects from doing a Suboxone taper.

    I discovered Kratom could be used the same way as Suboxone; I was told it would help with my withdrawal symptoms and desire for opiates. I was also told that it is mildly addictive, but if I had some will power it shouldn’t be a problem. I used Kratom for about 6 weeks, taking only as much as I had to to stop myself from being dope sick. At the end of those 6 weeks my Kratom was gone, along with withdrawal symptoms I was experiencing after Suboxone, save for depression and anxiety.

    I did it. I got off of opiates with Kratom, and then I stopped. I was still feeling depression and social anxiety. I went to a psychiatrist and went through a merry-go–round of anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications, one of which being Valium. I didn’t like the way these meds felt to me. They made me tired, impotent, emotionally flat, it helped my depression but now I was depressed experiencing all these side effects. I decided I would try Kratom again. Within a dose my depression is gone. I can go all day on a small amount of Kratom to take away my depression.

    Yes I agree that Kratom can be addictive if abused or used for long periods of time. But so can coffee. So can cigarettes. So can Anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications, and any withdrawal I felt from using Kratom after using a few months and taking a break for a few days was no where near what I’ve experienced from Paxil, Suboxone, Opiate pain medications, HEROIN, Valium, methadone or any other anti-anxiety medications I’ve been prescribed. The withdrawal is mostly mental in my experience and similar to if you drank coffee for a few months straight and stopped. Whats better is you can’t shoot up Kratom… you can’t overdose and die on Kratom, and if you take too much you’ll feel awkward and want to take a nap.

    I urge you to please take a second look at Kratom, read some testimonials from people with Fibro who have been on opiate medications for 10, 15, 20 years and get no effect from their narcotic medications, but can get relief and increased quality of life from just a small dose of Kratom a day. Kratom is the lesser of the evils Dr. Drew, and it has given many people the hope to continue on and do their best to enjoy life.

    If you don’t want to take a second look, at least reserve your judgement until the study from the University of Mississippi is released, and some scientific truths can be reported on.

    • Amy

      VERY well said!

  • jenniferspengler

    I’ve been a Dr. Drew fan for a long time, thanks to my love for shows like the Teen Mom series and the Rehab shows. I always felt Dr. Drew almost had a sixth sense when it came to dealing with people and their “demons.” However, I’m disappointed today, because Dr. Drew has basically jumped on the anti-kratom bandwagon while admitting he really doesn’t have any working knowledge of kratom.

    As a 5-year chronic pain patient in pain management, inevitably, I became dependent upon opiate pain medication. Beyond physical dependency, I found myself becoming psychologically dependent as well. I was able to replace my opiates with kratom to receive virtually equal pain management, but without all the dopiness the pain pills also included. I’ve never lost my balance, fallen asleep while sitting up, or slurred my words like I did on Big Pharma’s mess. I didn’t even have to taper; I just switched. Kratom handled the physical withdrawals while maintaining some level of pain management during that time. Once I was through the withdrawals, the kratom took over and handled the pain perfectly. My family and friends are glad I’ve found kratom and have no problems with me taking it daily. I take one dose a day, sometimes two, and rarely three (on a really bad pain day). I can take a small dose for energy or a larger dose for relaxation and extra pain management. I don’t even see my pain management doctor anymore. Maybe that’s the problem. My money isn’t spent on medical bills and at pharmacies now.

    Kratom has also helped with some of my other ailments. The list of benefits is too long for this forum, but just know that kratom is a multi-purpose benign and natural remedy.

    Dr. Drew, please do some research. You’re a very smart man with plenty of resources; see for yourself how kratom could help more than you could ever imagine. I promise you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

  • John Kutzler

    I think it is a shame that something that helps so many people , Like Kratom has done for years, Is now unfairly being targeted by Big Money! One look on Google is all it takes to find thousands of true accounts of the wonders of Kratom when it comes to Pain Relief and the Hundreds of people that have Used Kratom to get their lives back on track after drug abuse and pharmaceutical addictions due to lifelong injuries. I use it for Narcolepsy. This is a very poor decision to try to make something so helpful to so many people, look unsafe. It is much safer than beer, pot, or a 16 year old with a new drivers license. The next time you mention Kratom, Do your Homework First! and speak the Truth and stop trying to fool the educated. If anyone reading this does not know what Kratom is, Please google it and read what the Responsible people are saying about real life experiences, Not some Government official sponsored by a Pharmaceutical Company. Thanks for your time, John

    • Sister

      Safer then beer… for sure. Especially if one is driving. Is this another habit one has created …. YUP.

      • RobertM

        This logic, could be applied to near anything. Ever watch the show ‘Hoarders’ or ‘My Strange Addiction’? Should we just ban everything?…so that the Government needs to ‘spoon-feed’ us what is ‘good for us’?

  • M. dombrowski

    I’m sure it’s more of big pharma lining his pockets with green backs or gifting him then Dr. Drew making his own informed decision. Either way dr. drew ( did not capitalize on purpose as I have no respect for him) you should be ashamed! Here is an all natural plant that HAS ALREADY helped thousands get out from big pharmas hands by safely helping them. Not one fatality that is solely linked to kratom itself speaks volumes. Please do some research on your own rather then being told what it does or doesn’t do.

  • Sister

    Kratom behaves as a μ-opioid receptor agonist like morphine[5] and is used in the management of chronic pain, as well as recreationally.[6] Kratom use is not detected by typical drug screening tests, but its metabolites can be detected by more specialized testing.[7][8] The pharmacological effects of kratom on humans, including its efficacy and safety, are not well-studied.[5] Most side effects of kratom are thought to be mild, although isolated serious adverse effects such as psychosis, convulsions, hallucinations, and confusion have been reported rarely.[4] There has been a reported case in which chronic use of M. speciosa was associated with bowel obstruction, as well as anecdotal reports stating that the plant carries the potential for addiction and can lead to withdrawal symptoms.[4] There have been case reports that document deaths involving individuals who have combined kratom with other drugs or substances, but kratom itself has not been identified to be cause of death in any of these cases.[9][10][11]

    I am not the author of this…… I just cut/paste. But… I am here to say.. chronic use of Kratom is VERY Addictive. The Withdrawl syndrome is no different, I think harder to kick then short actings. It is a calcium beta blocker and mixed with the wrong substance I think for sure can lead to death. It alone… I doubt much it would kill you. Take too much you puke it up or fall asleep not feeling too good. I am not saying everyone who is dependent on Kratom has a better choice if the choice is to depend on a substance to feel fulfilled. I see this as addict thinking. I felt the same. Just harm reduction, I will take the lesser of the evils. I just got so tired of having to depend on any substance to feel good. I wanted to feel good on my own. tired of filling everyone pockets feeding my addicted body. So I spent the time needed allowing my body/brain to heal. I got support. The outcome… I no long have to ingest a substance day in and day out to not be dope sick.

    • jenniferspengler

      I’ve been a daily user more-or-less for almost a year now, and when I have abstained (sometimes for several days), I’ve had virtually no withdrawals. Maybe I’m a little sluggish, and my IBS symptoms return, as does my lower back pain, but withdrawing from kratom is nothing like withdrawing from, say, oxycodone… and I would definitely know that from experience…

      • RobertM

        Agreed.

      • Sister

        just fyi.. kratom is not a short acting substance. if one can stay with the leaves… I am sure the detox is the “flu like” symptoms but best believe there is a tolerance issue. I don’t suggest seeking the stronger Kratom in the form of extracts they offer. It would be like going from percocet to oxycontin. Good luck.

    • RobertM

      University funded Research studies and Peer-Reviewed Journals, will offer you MUCH more information and insight to this plant; than say, Wikipedia.

      • Margo Burton

        cheers to that!

    • John Kutzler

      The fella that died, mixed it with modafinil. . I have narcolepsy and take Modafinil daily. I am writing this as Proof that it can be done.
      Thanks to Kratom, I am no longer addicted to Tramadol. As far as Addiction, Tramadol is the Hardest Drug to withdraw from, as anyone that takes it will agree.
      After taking it for 15 years and getting seriously sick if i missed a dose, i can confirm that I honestly thought i would NEVER be able get off of it. Kratom is the only reason that i am no longer addicted to Tramadol.
      Stopping Kratom is a walk in the park!
      As far as a serious study goes, Just ask the thousands that take it everyday for pain what they think. The Internet is a wonderful tool.

    • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

      Why is it that the study (of which I read the entire studyas i have it downloaded on my phone and it was on two plants.) Says it had a POTENTIAL for addiction …and u say VERY ADDICTING…? See how things get blown up……the fact is in our sociaty when ppl do too much of something they slap the word addiction on the end.Of course there are ppl out there that abuse anything …heck sugar does the same thing to our brains as cocaine..did u see that study?! AND sugar does way more damage to our bodies…and is an so called addiction as well …many drink coffee everybday to get themselves going..fuel up a little motivation and wake me up and make me feel better juice lol…but the norm of the ppl know when to stop drinking coffee….and not to give it to our kids cause its not good for them…and there has been no reported deaths due to kratom……kratom and other narcotic drugs yes……so i agree there should be labeling and they shouldnt sell to minors …just like alcohol which can also kill you if mixed with opiods …..and is sooooo much more addicting than Kratom…..u can overdose and cant walk or talk and u do stupid things and even beat ppl up when u dont know enough to stop at a few drinks…..have you seen or talked to anyone on Kratom lol…..and yet apcohol is legal…and they are teting to ban Kratom…somebody on kratom dooesnt get high or drunk and get behind the wheel of a car …they live a bettwr quality without pain and anxiety and depression..they can work better and focus to look aftwr their children…and have engery and no pain to play with their kids and clean the house and be in a good mood……

      • Sister

        You read about any opiate and they say has the potential for addiction. I remember when oxycontin came on the market… supposedly not addictive at all. I was told that suboxone is NOT addictive or has any serious wd syndrome attached to it. Tell that to one who as acquired an addiction to it. Its kick may not be as intense as H but the longevity of the wd never seems to stop. I know many 4-5 yrs post sub detox who claim they never did return to their baseline once addicted to that poison. I will be the first to admit not everyone who ingest an opiate or opiate like substance immediately becomes an addict. Witness it myself. I don’t believe that you don’t get high from Kratom. Total bs. I guess I am really addressing those who do not want to depend on a substance to feel good, clean house or play with their kids. Active addiction is a personal choice in my eyes. I am an addict that chooses with live sober. I feel its my duty to my fellow addicts to warn them that Kratom IS addictive. For you…. this is a choice only you have to deal with. Well, you and those that love you. But… it is a personal choice. I feel the body is an amazing creation. IF allowed too, will heal itself. Being a RN Ive seen the body heal itself when given the opportunity. Opiates are not the best choice for chronic pain. Only adds to the issues. Opiates/opiate like substances will relieve the brain of it duty to supply the body with enough endorphins to take care of the pain or discomforts. Thus….addiction in the making.

        • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

          Well i have been on oxy for more then 6 yrs…i have been on morphien…inhave even tried pot….and then on to ampjetamins from what the oxy and pain did to me….i have been high …i have felt it from them drugs……..Im now on kratom…a leaf that hasn’t been touched by man…just crushed….Now…I have been completely fair and honest with you.So I hope you believe me when I say I dont get high on kratom….i feel like i had a cup of coffee and my pain IS GONE!!! With the pain pills i still had pain …even when i took more ..then id be sore and high…and have withdrawal….I have no withdrawal or crash form Kratom??? And i guess rhis is why I have a hard time seeing it asa bad rthing…a friend said …yea but poppies were a plant too….and id say yes and the were played with by man…where this isnt played withAT all…natural….so i threw my pain pipls and dexies out the window…and ive been on the same dose ….havnt wanted or needed more and more…..that being said …indont have an addiction illness…other than food…omg keep the pie and sweets away …lol…smokes too…lol….wich i need to stop…dont tell me its bad …lol….anyways….want me to check up with u in a year and see where im at …giggles 🙂 You have been a pleasure to talk to.I want you to know that……:)

  • Amy

    I take antidepressants. If I stop taking them, I get withdrawals and feel horrible. I also take kratom. If I stop taking it, I may have a little trouble sleeping for a night or two, and that’s it. What is the difference between these? They both help me with my depression and anxiety. I would certainly say the withdrawals from antidepressants are MUCH worse. Kratom has been a life-changer in terms of giving me back my quality of life. It has helped me move forward and deal with things I felt I couldn’t handle before. I only wish I’d discovered it sooner. I feel I am no more addicted to kratom than I am addicted to antidepressants.

  • Skits101

    Kratom by far is the most amazing substance ive ever come across. I’ve sought treatment for my adhd and total lack of motivation from a few doctors. I went to numerous doctors in hopes of getting adderall XR 20mg as a coworker of mine was giving me hers for years as my insurance didn’t cover it. They all tried to diagnose my adhd as a symptom of depression, I was prescribed numerous antidepressants until they put me on one named paxil. This drug absolutely ruined me, it gave me tinnitus 24/7, made me hate life itself, made me consider ending it all, gave me panic attacks and the list goes on. While attempting to withdrawal from these so called safe meds I was on psychiatric lockdown. It left me severely depressed, incredibly unmotivated and unattached from life. Then I came across kratom, a leaf of the coffee tree family that’s been used for centuries to increase focus, decrease depression, relaxes you, can be a mild pain releaver, and much more depending on the strand of leaf. I’ve had plenty of injuries where I was prescribed a opiate medication and know the euphoric effects of it, which kratom effects the same opiate receptors as I can see where the confusion stems from of the issue of addiction. But in no way is kratom anywhere near those levels of euphoria from real opiates. Kratom isn’t about getting high, if this is your idea of high I’d hate to see you take a ibuprofen as you’d be sky high in your perception. I take it in the morning as one would their coffee, and I’m back to my normal self and motivated and happy and extremely outgoing, I go days with it and some days without it, it’s been about 4 days since I’ve had it because I ran out and I’m not jittery, I’m not crashing, I’m not losing my mind. Kratom has brought me back from SSRI hell and given me the confidence and motivation to work full time and continue my college classes. As with any substance it’s on you the consumer to make the reasonable decision on amount, if you drink to much alcohol do you not throw up? If you take to much caffeine do you not crash later? It’s on you and your own judgement on what you ingest and how much. It’s called being a goddamn adult who makes decisions! You can attempt to bash kratom all you want, say it’s dangerous and this will ruin your life but there is not anything you could possibly say to me about this being addictive and dangerous, when I don’t crave it more than caffeine.

    • jenniferspengler

      Amen!

  • Karen Leidy

    Dr. Drew: There are many who appreciate you opinions and take what you say very seriously. Because of that, I believe you made a big mistake in your podcast when you spoke about kratom. You made a wide sweeping flippant comment on the subject of kratom based on what you claim to have heard about it. Kratom is very beneficial in helping to lessen pain and other problems associated with my very real chronic physical disabilities. Prescription medicines, however, have not been helpful and come with multiple side effects to include physical dependence. If you are speaking as an expert to the public on these matters, then perhaps you should do some quality research of your own.

  • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

    Chronic pain= pain pills= depression=antidepressants and pain pills.Pain gets worse need more=addiction depression and still chronic pain.Years of pills= illness and death.AND DONT FORGET ACCEDENTAL DEATHS.AND PPL STEALING AND KILLING FOR THESE DRUGS Due to addiction or the want to sell them.OUR CHILDREN GETTING INTO THEM AND .INGESTING BY ACCIDENT…..COMMITTING SUICIDE WITH OPIODS.

    Chronic pain= kratom.= no depression=NO DEATH=NO.OVERDOSE ABILITY=NO HARMFUL SIDE AFFECTS THAT CAUSE ILLNESS OR DEATH.=No CAPABLE WAY OF COMITTING SUICIDE NO ACCIDENTAL deaths or children’s deaths by accedental ingestion.No killing or stealing for the drugs…not as many drugs on the street or in our medacine cabinets for our teens to take to parties…If u take too much you vomit it back out….THERE HAS BEEN NO DEATHS REPORTED IN THE UNITED STATES OR CANADA FROM KRATOM.

    SO DR.DREW….LETS SAY KRATOM IS ADDICTING …I DONT BELIEVE IT IS…I CAN SEE SOMEONE DEPENDING ON IT TO MAKE FOR A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE..AND IF YOU TOOK IT AWAY ON ME ID BE IN PAIN AND DEPRESSED …BUT LETS SAY FOR EXAMPLE WE GO WITH WHAT YOU THINK….

    …….WHAT WOULD BE THE SAFER THING TO BE ADDICTED TOO?FOR PPL THAT NEED A DRUG FOR THEIR ILLNESS…..I WOULD SAY A NATURAL HERB CALLED KRATOM …….???
    now u go enjoy ur “coffee” and think about that….Oh did anyone tell you coffee is a drug?? And millions are addicted to it…..heck ,we dont like our young to have it either for this reason….but foldgers in your cup sure makes for a little bounce in your step to get you feeling better every morning 🙂

    • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

      id like to mention the oxy and amphetamines I was on for my chronic pain made me high..and drowsy and kind of out of it…..until i got used to them…and i was still allowed to legally drive if i felt able.Kratom doesnt make you high or tired and drowsy it makes you focused and not tired …and the rutt ppl find themself in that they cant get out of seems alot more manageable so ur kind of in a good mood as the stress is lifted.This was my experience ..not to m eantion pain control)

  • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

    Chronic pain= pain pills= depression=antidepressants and pain pills.Pain gets worse need more=addiction depression and still chronic pain.Years of pills= illness and death.AND DONT FORGET ACCEDENTAL DEATHS.AND PPL STEALING AND KILLING FOR THESE DRUGS Due to addiction or the want to sell them.OUR CHILDREN GETTING INTO THEM AND .INGESTING BY ACCIDENT…..COMMITTING SUICIDE WITH OPIODS.

    Chronic pain= kratom.= no depression=NO DEATH=NO.OVERDOSE ABILITY=NO HARMFUL SIDE AFFECTS THAT CAUSE ILLNESS OR DEATH.=No CAPABLE WAY OF COMITTING SUICIDE NO ACCIDENTAL deaths or children’s deaths by accedental ingestion.No killing or stealing for the drugs…not as many drugs on the street or in our medacine cabinets for our teens to take to parties…If u take too much you vomit it back out….THERE HAS BEEN NO DEATHS REPORTED IN THE UNITED STATES OR CANADA FROM KRATOM.

    SO DR.DREW….LETS SAY KRATOM IS ADDICTING …I DONT BELIEVE IT IS…I CAN SEE SOMEONE DEPENDING ON IT TO MAKE FOR A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE..AND IF YOU TOOK IT AWAY ON ME ID BE IN PAIN AND DEPRESSED …BUT LETS SAY FOR EXAMPLE WE GO WITH WHAT YOU THINK….

    …….WHAT WOULD BE THE SAFER THING TO BE ADDICTED TOO?FOR PPL THAT NEED A DRUG FOR THEIR ILLNESS…..I WOULD SAY A NATURAL HERB CALLED KRATOM …….???
    now u go enjoy ur “coffee” and think about that….Oh did anyone tell you coffee is a drug?? And millions are addicted or dependent on it…..heck ,we dont like our young to have it either for this reason….but foldgers in your cup sure makes for a little bounce in your step to get you feeling better every morning 🙂

  • Sister

    I am not here to judge or even argue about this. Just wanted to give those that are prone for addiction that this Plant can and is addictive. Up to you on what you choose to do. There are many stories in the drug forums sharing about their addiction with Kratom and the withdrawal syndrome that follows when stopped abruptly.
    I work with addicts and in recovery myself. I just know for me… any opiate or opiate like substance will take me right back where I was 6 yrs ago. That includes tramadol, Kratom or any opiate/ opiate like substance. Kratom hits the mu/kappa receptors just like Roxy or herione. If interested in reading stories about what one goes through once addicted to kratom… visit “opiate detox and recovery”. Many share their experience on the site. I am out….. all have a happy and safe holiday.

    • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

      Sry…didnt mean to upset you…just thought since you posted your opinion on a site where ppl can reply and discuss Id talk to you….as i had intrest in what you were stating…didnt expect just a cut off or an I am out? ……thanks for the site info tho…..thank you for your work in helping addicts thats just awsome ……and If your interested in reading how it helps many ppl Take a look at the american kratom society ..sometimes in life there can be two sides that work and what works some some doesnt work for others ….maybe this is one of those times…take care and merry christmas to you too and to ur family..

      • Sister

        Im not upset nor did I mean to come across as I was cutting you off. I just wanted to bring to anyone who is not aware that K is addictive… that is surely is. I tend not to spend much time on pc unless I can’t sleep. So if someone ask me a specific question… I may not even see it. I have read more then one forum pro Kratom…seen many of my clients at those sites in deep denial. Have had many from those site ask for help behind closed doors. It a HUGE money maker and due to supply/demand only getting bigger, more attention from the DEA and moms/dads of addicted kids. I have even suggested to a few clients that are on methadone to use K to help them lower their methadone dose, wean off so they can receive the treatment I am involved with.

        I also get not everyone will or even wants to live totally sober. Thats a personal choice. I just want all to make the decision to use K with open eyes, knowledge of its negatives. There are very few studies on this… not mainstream as of yet. I just know too many that ask for help to leave it behind. If it has the property that once one crosses that line and becomes addicted, its not easy to walk away from. Again…. not meaning to cut you or anyone off. we all have the right to our own beliefs. Good luck.

        • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

          http://news.olemiss.edu/?s=kratom
          with you being in that industry and a recovered ( in which i applaud you immensely) maybe have a read? I KNOW ur out haha …god love ya.♡ but it is truely interesting …and u said there were few studies and this is an in depth one if ur interested …no need to reply…Im sure ur ready to reach thru the screen and strangle me ….but Its because i do care about ppl and anyring that could help where everything else has failed them due to cold turkey ….take care and thank you for your concern also…you can tell you care an awful lot about the ones you help and know they go thru hell…..♡

          • Sister

            Lol… guess I am not quite out. I did read the article. Still….not enough research around Kratom. I get that not everyones choice is to live sober.. Many choose just to maintain their addiction and I will agree… this may be a better choice then suboxone or methadone. Being one that was on both… I agree that Kratom might have caused less damage then the two choices the USA offers. For those who do choose sober living Kratom is helpful to reduce doses of Meth/sub. I even suggested this to clients who are interested in sober living but having a long acting opiate in their system knocks them out of the running for the treatment I offer.

            Just for your interest… take a look at Heantos. Its rather new to the US but legal, (for now). I have not seen this in action but about to get the opportunity. This could be a safe home detox.

            I will say the detox is such a small part of recovery. Ive cold turkey more times I care to remember. Ive had hospital detoxes, home detoxes, very painful. I work now with Ibogaine which does offer a relatively painless detox. But as I said… the detox is a small part to recovery. Recovery can not begin till the opiate or opiate like substance is out of ones system.. I am for anyway one chooses to get there. My point about Kratom is that it is addictive and does have withdrawal syndrome just like every opiate/opiate like substance available. Its has a tolerance issue just like other opiates. I just don’t want an addict to use this plant thinking they found the answer. I fell for too many easy way outs only to have to face another detox harder then the one I was running from.

          • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

            Hehehe well Im happy you are talking to me …would it not help tho as a crutch? You know …in the way of lets say someone is obese ..such as i was…and to go cold turkey id mess up aftera week and eat the entire fridge and keep going even worse …..but rhen going on a diet and being able to have the s plenda and food with half the fat …like a crutch …i was able to lose a hundred lbs….and then i toke the next step …and weened off that stuff …because i felt better ..and had accomplished a big thing in my mind …so cutting down off a natural substance maybe a little easier ….???? For the ones that just cant do it…this study even has potential for cocain blockers where there is nothing at all on the market rigjt now….And yeah they are still working on it but say it will REALLY be something ….Honestly sister …lmao …if your out its ok….I dont want to keep bugging ….and im not arguing ….lol…just interested ♡ tell me to go jump in a puddle if you want hahhaha

          • RobertM

            Is this enough?…I can site many more.

            Here is a collective source of links to University and Journal research studies pertaining to Mitragyna Speciosa (Kratom):

            Evaluation of Antioxidant and Antibacterial Activities Mitragyna Speciosa:

            http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=E44B973C0FF5DD61B3580B60BA8A123D?doi=10.1.1.396.4269&rep=rep1&type=pdf

            Pharmacology of Kratom: An Emerging Botanical Agent With Stimulant, Analgesic and Opioid-Like Effects:

            http://www.jaoa.org/content/112/12/792.full.pdf+html

            Antidepressant-like effect of Mitragynine:

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20869223

            Sedative, Cognitive Impairment and Anxiolytic Effects of Acute Mitragyna Speciosa in Rodents:

            https://attachment.fbsbx.com/file_download.php?id=795655840465639&eid=AStlfr3YjlHcgG959Wz7uwdW8rWcWXZWQSyqfI9C2Mjd6COj_9k4XdydJ-z2d80IpvU&inline=1&ext=1408478246&hash=ASvIHCo0N8gc23Eq

            Total Synthesis of Mitragynine and Analogues:

            http://www.science.uva.nl/onderwijs/thesis/centraal/files/f147369751.pdf

            In-Utero Effects of the Crude Ethanolic Extract of the Leaves of Mitragyna Speciosa:

            http://www.ajebs.com/vol2/27.pdf

            Mitragyna speciosa Korth standardized methanol extract induced short-term potentiation of CA1 subfield:

            http://www.academicjournals.org/article/article1380788400_Senik%20et%20al%20%20%2019.pdf

            Effects of mitragynine from Mitragyna speciosa Korth leaves on working memory:

            http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378874110002114

            Self-treatment of opioid withdrawal using kratom (Mitragynia speciosa korth):

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3670991/

            Computational Study on the Conformations of Mitragynine and Mitragynaline:

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3031075/?tool=pubmed

            Should Kratom Use Be Legal?

            http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/should-kratom-be-legal/

            Simultaneous analysis of mitragynine, 7-Hydroxymitragynine, and other alkaloids in the plant “Kratom”:

            https://ewsd.wiv-isp.be/Publications%20on%20new%20psychoactive%20substances/Kratom/Kikura-Hanajiri_analysis_kratom_by_LC-ESI-MS_2009.pdf

            Pharmacological Studies on 7-Hydroxymitragynine, Isolated from the Thai Herbal Medicine Mitragyna Speciosa:

            :

            Discovery of an Orally Active Opioid Analgesic

            http://mitizane.ll.chiba-u.jp/metadb/up/assist1/Y2006-17.pdf

            Pharmacology of kratom: an emerging botanical agent with stimulant, analgesic and opioid-like effects:

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23212430

            Informative PDF from NeuroSoup:

            http://www.neurosoup.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/kratom-murple-NS.pdf

            Thailand’s cure for meth addiction?

            http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/thailand/130916/kratom-bangkok-thailand-leafy-stimulant-drug-meth-opium

          • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

            Very intersting finds Robert….:) my point in all this for me…is that I need pain control.I dont have an addictive personality and have been on the same dose of oxy n morohien for over six years.The effects on my body and my mind were unbearable.It changed me as a person as well.AND zapped all my happiness and motivation and energy.
            So i had to really take a look at kratom.And to me Kratom is a god given gift.Its natural and untouched by man to get the effect ..unlike opium where its a plant but had to be tampered with to get the effects …
            When i put kratom and perscription drugs side by side and do the comparison of neg to pos …Kratom wins hands down.In so many ways.
            Its so much safer In the body and mind.and in general….Im not depressed and my pain is controlled …I tried to take my life last year and guess what i used in that dark time? My perscription pills…I swallowed the entire bottle.If i were to have kratom beside me at that time and tried to take my life i would of either went for a good nap or thrown up what my body didnt need.Nobody has died from kratom.I dont get high from it or need to worry about my soon to be teenage twin boys getting into it or stealing from me to bring to parties …It doesnt make my belly or liver hurt…..the cost is lower and i can now buy my kids that shirt or CD they want….and i could go on….lol
            so my point is either way i need something…to have a better quality of life due to my illness.Kratom to me isnt addicting but I do depend on it to allow me to live and have a better quality of life it doesnt cause depression….but helps it
            There have been rumors that alot of kratom bought from some places is being laced with tramadol.Maybe some ppl that are finding they are addicted have been getting theirs from that source.I believe it should be regulated and sold as a suppliment for above 18.Its also getting a bad rep from ppl taking it to get high and mixing with other drugs which then sends them to ER rooms.Thats not this herbs problem thatnis the prob of the user .Many end up in ER from doung the same with alcohol but we dont see a ban for that ?? Lol
            I went off ALL my pain meds and amphetamines and antideprests without Any withdrawal symptoms.Kratom has controlled my pain and depression better than any pill has.Over the time i have been using kratom i havnt used or needed more and more…actually as the meds left my body i needed less.
            I am a much happier person 🙂 and my kids have a mother back…a mother that isnt high i might add. HAPPY NEW YEAR 🙂

  • Lisa Heideman-Bowman

    Study of how it IS helping and why it works to help ppl addicted to opiods …
    http://news.olemiss.edu/?s=kratom

  • Kratom is no more ‘dangerous’ than a pleasant cup of coffee. I have been
    prescribed many prescription drugs for depression, anxiety and
    chronic pain from spinal injuries, and have replaced most of them
    with kratom, ginger root, diet and exercise. No more oxycodone shakes
    or planning my life around my prescriptions.

    I have been using kratom daily for 4 years (2-3 grams of powdered leaf
    4x daily), and during a recent hospital visit, I was given no
    medication of any kind for 8 days and had no withdrawal symptoms
    …there simply is no physical addiction.

    Demonizing Kratom is not only incorrect thinking, but immoral. Kratom is the
    cure for opiate/opioid addictions, and can replace other dangerous
    psychiatric medications, but it’s effects are no more impairing than
    a double espresso. Only greed could account for proposed bans
    sponsored by those corporations and professions that profit from
    addiction to opiates.

    Don’t be fooled again. Try this herbal tea for yourself before overreacting
    and dooming thousands to opiate addiction.

  • J Martin

    Wow! Don’t talk bad about an addict’s drugs, huh? I’ve never seen this many posts for any episode.